Abby Stein: Judaism Unbound Episode 196 - Becoming Eve
Abby Stein, author of Becoming Eve: My Journey from Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi to Transgender Woman, [1] joins Dan Libenson and Lex Rofeberg for a conversation about how the topics of gender, fundamentalism, peoplehood, “tolerance,” and more intersect with one another in Jewish communities and beyond. [2]
(0:01 - 17:54): To begin the episode, Abby Stein speaks to the ways in which her coming-of-age story — even as its “before and after pictures” seem radically different — reflects elements of the human experience that are shared by all of us. Turning to the topic of her childhood, living in a fundamentalist Jewish space, she explores ways in which fundamentalist groups across religious lines resemble one another in myriad respects. [3] One characteristic of these different religious groups, which she delves into deeply, is the tendency to conflate the rights of others (external to the group) with threats against the group itself. [4] She then explores the importance of how we interpret Ultra-Orthodox restrictions. Specifically, she argues that we should avoid the conception that Ultra-Orthodox restrictions somehow mark them as entirely separate from us, but rather see these groups as radical examples that help us understand systemic issues that we need to wrestle with in more mainstream corners of society as well.
(17:55 - 36:29): Stein hints at a few stories in the book (without telling them fully — no spoilers!) that help to illustrate her relationship to gender during her childhood. She also looks at the attempts Ultra-Orthodox communities make to prevent their members from exposure to the internet, along with why those attempts tend to fail. Dan brings up a comparison to the Amish practice of Rumschpringe (actively offering a period of time outside the community, after which individuals decide whether to return or not), and Stein explores some of the issues inherent to that approach as well. [5] Turning to an ongoing theme over the course of Judaism Unbound’s years of podcasts, Abby Stein gives her take on the “B’nei Brak Test” — looking at the extent to which Jewish peoplehood might, and might not, transcend boundaries of culture, politics, and community. [6] In doing so, she examines ways in which a “one-sided love” might be in effect, where non-Orthodox Jews feel a sense of connection even with the Ultra-Orthodox, but that sense of connection does not flow equally in the other direction.
(36:30 - 51:30): Through the lens of Jewish institutional “tolerance,” Stein looks at the ways in which communities sometime communicate — intentionally or not — that theirs is and will be a heteronormative space, willing to “welcome” LGBTQ folks, as opposed to being a space not only willing to “welcome” or “tolerate,” but actively be shaped, led, and crafted around LGBTQ identities (in addition to cisgender, straight people). [6] She then explores her evolving relationship to her title of “rabbi,” along with the unique skill set that folks who grew up Ultra-Orthodox, and left, can bring to non-Orthodox Jewish communities. To close the episode, Stein looks at the ways in which her Ultra-Orthodox upbringing gives her a kind of “superpower” that is worth using in Jewish spaces, and occasionally even abusing! [7]
[1] Learn more about Abby Stein here. Purchase Becoming Eve at this link. And follow her social media pages through any of these links: Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram
[2] Abby Stein appeared on Judaism Unbound once before. Listen into that episode here: Episode 155: The Women’s March - April Baskin, Yavilah McCoy, Abby Stein
[3] Stein mentions a friend and colleague of hers, Kate Kelly, who grew up in the Mormon community and with whom she works on a project called Sacred Space, which celebrates women and nonbinary people of all faith traditions. Learn more about Kelly and her work through this article, and follow the work that Sacred Space does here.
[4] Here, Stein references the work of Women of the Wall. Hear from leaders of that organization by listening to Episode 129: Women of the Wall - Lesley Sachs, Susan Silverman.
[5] Footsteps is an organization that helps people coming from ultra-orthodox backgrounds, as they build lives for themselves outside of the ultra-orthodox world. Abby Stein talks about its work in this segment of the show, and you can learn more about it at Footstepsorg.org.
[6] To listen to two conversations looking at the “B’nei B’rak Test,” hinted at in this episode, see Episode 41: History and Memory - Yehuda Kurtzer and/or Episode 70: After Ultra-Orthodoxy - Shulem Deen.
[7] One of the ways in which Stein has mobilized her “superpower” is by creating dozens (DOZENS!) of source-sheets, designed for Jewish learning, which she has created and shared with the public. Access all 49 (and counting!) of these source-sheets on Sefaria by clicking here.